tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post7732367139124983964..comments2023-08-27T23:33:32.550-04:00Comments on The Bible Lessons: (92) When is the end of the world?Timhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-52584670095975999712016-11-23T13:27:34.204-05:002016-11-23T13:27:34.204-05:00Tim said, "It was prophesied He would be born...Tim said, "It was prophesied He would be born. It was prophesied He would return, but then why would the end times NOT be prophesied and we be told of another return?<br /><br />????<br /><br />Tim said, "What happens to us who live after 70 AD? Are we just waiting for the end of our lives?"<br /><br />ME: Seriously …your life could be over in a second. “JUST WAITING” Isn’t that what you doing now…LOL! . WE are living in the Kingdom that has no end, Jesus is reigning, the Church or the bride and the Spirit are still saying “come”. Evangelism is more important than ever. The Spirit is still working with and on us for that time when we will all see Him face to face , WE will ALL kneel and confess the Glory of the Lord (NOTE: IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DONE ALL OF US AT ONE TIME…this can happen massively or individually as we go through the Lake of Fire). People need to experience the love of God NOW, TODAY is still the day of salvation. Your objections does not make any sense!<br /><br />Tim said, "Are the gifts and promises of the Bible for us too? Are we left without the Spirit, because the Spirit is supposed to be gone for the anti-Christ to come and have power."<br /><br />YES! Anti-Christ (talk later)<br /><br />Tim said, "Is Satan already destroyed?"<br /><br />Describe ..destroyed? I know the FINAL end of fate!<br /><br />Tim said, "When did 1/3 of the world die?" and "When did all of the fish in the sea die?"<br /><br />TALK LATER<br /><br />Tim said, "Everything that Jesus did was physical, yet most of preterism focuses on allegorical or metaphorically. He birth was real. His death was real. His resurrection was real. His appearance to Paul was real. So (full preterism) why would His return by a metaphor?"<br /><br />YES you are half right…but you are not saying that Jesus never used Metaphors? This is my Body…real? MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE? HIS COMING WAS REAL< HIS JUDGEMENT WAS VERY REAL! IF THIS IS WHAT HE ACTUALLY MEANT WHO AM I TO ARGUE!!!<br /><br />Tim said, "Everything that Jesus did or said was for ALL. His death was for all. His promises were for all. His return will be for all. So why (partial preterism) would it be only for a few?"<br /><br />NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN<br /><br />Tim said, "It took 1600 years Noah. It took 1900 years to live before the covenant of faith and Abraham was establish. It would take another 400 years before the Law came around. It took another 1500 years for the Law to go away. Why would it only be 35 years for grace?"<br /><br />What do you mean? GRACE IS STILL HERE!<br /><br />Tim said, "Now if that which worked death, by means of a written text engraved on stone tablets, came with glory — such glory that the people of Israel could not stand to look at Moses' face because of its brightness, even though that brightness was already fading away —won’t the working of the Spirit be accompanied by even greater glory?<br /><br />The working of the Spirit is grace and truth. If it was so great then why would only a few get the chance to have it?"<br /><br />?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-57273363992635501632016-11-23T13:26:43.076-05:002016-11-23T13:26:43.076-05:00Tim said, "preterism does away with all the e...Tim said, "preterism does away with all the end time questions, but it adds more to me. If preterism is the answer..."<br /><br />NO I think is said madness, date settings. People selling their homes going up on a mountain and waiting for His return, escapism. There are always questions; it does create a more narrow narrative without all the complexity and confusion.<br /><br />Tim asked, "How many times will Jesus return? If He would come to earth a third time why didn't scripture tell us this?"<br /><br />Who said anything about a “third” time? A fundamental problem is not recognizing His “return” as the RETURN of 70 AD. This was the return He spoke of and all the Phraseology used in the Old Test. are the same as the New TEST. "Behold He rides on the clouds, the Lord “Came down” and the mountains, melted like wax, And He will come in like manner …what like manner? All the terminology like the “gathering together”, being caught up, fulfillment of Old Israel resurrection promises (bones rising from the dirt) were being fulfilled thru Jesus….He set a captive of host freed from Hades. The graves were open and the death came out on the day he died another fulfillment. <br /><br />Tim said, "I mean, one of the biggest arguments is why wouldn't John write about an event that would be so big if it hadn't happened yet, so he must have written it before 70 AD."<br /><br />YES before 70 AD ..it was to be a big event as John says! If the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and John wrote after that..he was told to go and get a measuring stick and measure the temple, he can’t measure something that is not there!<br /><br />Tim said, "But, the same idea is here. If there would be a third advent then why wouldn't the world know about it through scripture?"<br /><br />What 3rd event?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-17348970788787000372016-09-23T12:02:58.988-04:002016-09-23T12:02:58.988-04:00Well let me try this. Please understand I am still...Well let me try this. Please understand I am still working through this whole process of the preterist view. When I went to Cincinnati Bible College in the 70’s, I did do some research on the Four Views on the Millennium end times thinking, and I find it as confusing now as it was then! Of course the school was Amillennialist and or Pan-millennialist which basically says the 1000 yrs. reign is figurative and not literal.<br /><br />See if I have this half right?<br /><br />The Millennialist basically puts Israel (of Today) in the center of the bible prophesies. <br />Amillennialist and others see the 70 AD as something much more significant and Israel's prophesies are minor or at zero. This depends on if your partial or full Preterist and Jesus has come as He stated or He is yet to come!<br />The full Preterist says all the promises/prophesy that Paul spoke of regarding Israel (especially in Romans) were fulfilled in some manner in a more spiritual or figurative manner during the 7 yrs. period of time and there after! They also have reason they believe that the Book of Rev. was written before the destruction of the city that the Lord was slain in and that is much of the information that Rev. contains referencing the “things” that were to shortly come to pass. They would also conclude that failure to understand what the church/kingdom is, (today) is to deny it’s truth.<br /><br />The church is the New Israel / the Church is the New Jerusalem. The Church is the Only Bride! The Church represents all of this …not the land or the people overseas…unless they have excepted Christ! <br /><br />1 Peter 2:9<br />But ye are a chosen generation Not Jews, a royal priesthood No Jews, an holy nation, NO LAND, a peculiar people (NO JEWISH RACE); that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light;<br /><br />1. The Jews today are not the real Jews!<br />2. They have no Covenant, they are divorced, they are like the rest of the enemies/lost people.<br />3. Jesus had already stood in the “REBUILT” Temple, His feet did touch the Mt. of Olives and etc..which was Daniel’s and all the other Old Test. Prophesies <br />4. He fulfilled and did All that He set out to do!<br />5. The whole idea of rebuilding a temple (today) and bringing back animal sacrifices would in some way or gesture be a slap in the Face of God and His perfect sacrifice that was performed ONCE and for All, never, never , never to return.<br />6. These are just a few of their objections to Israel and what others think about their role, almost to the point that they are accused of being anti-Semitic. <br /><br />Although one could argue and successfully to some point about Israel from 1948 and on how this has happened or that was fulfilled and use the bible to back up their views and how Hitler was the Anti-Christ. Good Luck on telling the Jews that Hitler was in reality being used by God to bring His will about! It was God’s punishment on them! Is the Hand of God still moving with Israel? Is the hand of God moving with other countries, is God’s hand moving on the USA?<br /><br />Is the Church there? Then Yes, Is the work of the Spirit still working, Yes! Does God still have a special land …Yes and No only if His church is there! But not dirt/earth there is nothing more holy there than it is here!<br /><br />Even after saying all of that...every ones views should be should treated with respect and this is where the real problem starts and ends!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-26836288892841737622016-09-22T17:35:39.650-04:002016-09-22T17:35:39.650-04:00You say that preterism does away with all the end ...You say that preterism does away with all the end time questions, but it adds more to me. If preterism is the answer:<br /><br />1. How many times will Jesus return? If He would come to earth a third time why didn't scripture tell us this? I mean, one of the biggest arguments is why wouldn't John write about an event that would be so big if it hadn't happened yet, so he must have written it before 70 AD. But, the same idea is here. If there would be a third advent then why wouldn't the world know about it through scripture? It was prophesied He would be born. It was prophesied He would return, but then why would the end times NOT be prophesied and we be told of another return?<br />2. What happens to us who live after 70 AD? Are we just waiting for the end of our lives?<br />3. Are the gifts and promises of the Bible for us too? Are we left without the Spirit, because the Spirit is supposed to be gone for the anti-Christ to come and have power.<br />4. Is Satan already destroyed?<br />5. When did 1/3 of the world die?<br />6. When did all of the fish in the sea die?<br /><br />Everything that Jesus did was physical, yet most of preterism focuses on allegorical or metaphorically. He birth was real. His death was real. His resurrection was real. His appearance to Paul was real. So (full preterism) why would His return by a metaphor?<br /><br />Everything that Jesus did or said was for ALL. His death was for all. His promises were for all. His return will be for all. So why (partial preterism) would it be only for a few?<br /><br />It took 1600 years Noah. It took 1900 years to live before the covenant of faith and Abraham was establish. It would take another 400 years before the Law came around. It took another 1500 years for the Law to go away. Why would it only be 35 years for grace? Now if that which worked death, by means of a written text engraved on stone tablets, came with glory — such glory that the people of Israel could not stand to look at Moses' face because of its brightness, even though that brightness was already fading away —won’t the working of the Spirit be accompanied by even greater glory? The working of the Spirit is grace and truth. If it was so great then why would only a few get the chance to have it?Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-90564733786082027012016-09-21T20:03:48.842-04:002016-09-21T20:03:48.842-04:00Yes. But my points are valid. :)Yes. But my points are valid. :)Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-741519891734641822016-09-21T09:33:46.243-04:002016-09-21T09:33:46.243-04:00lol! WE are doing Exactly what the folks were doi...lol! WE are doing Exactly what the folks were doing in the video debates only worse because it is in this form of communication. One missed used word or over statement of what the other person has said or a slight twisting of what is being said creates chaos. But continue the studies is a must!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-60154834461794198012016-09-20T22:59:35.581-04:002016-09-20T22:59:35.581-04:00Continued......
Anon said, "About the Matthe...Continued......<br /><br />Anon said, "About the Matthew and the other Passages you and others would hold that there are two or three distinct questions therefore it must demand 2 or 3 distinct and different answers or events. You would not think it unreasonable for one answer or event to fit and multi-question? Quick question …. Acts 1:6...We read more and he tells them about the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel (we see this as event of Pentecost, right?)... They Ask about “The kingdom of Israel” my question is what Kingdom of Israel? … He is talking about “restore” something that they are wanting to hold on to? What do they mean by restoring? Old wine skins can not hold new wine! I suggest this type of questioning is just one more thing that Jesus did not want to get involved in, since He knew the Spirit of Truth was on His way! Again Is there or is there not A New “Israel”? Is there or is there not A New Nation, A new Priesthood, a New people? And lastly a new Covenant? My opinion folks are making the same mistakes as the typical Jewish mentality."<br /><br />I don't get what you mean. The disciples were asking if He would bring back the kingdom to Israel, the nation itself. Simon was a zealot. He may have been looking for the physical restoration of breaking away the power of Rome and given back to Israel like in the days of David. It's not that He didn't get involved with the question. He simply answered their concern about "when" it will take place. It has nothing to do with old wine skins and new wine skins (which is of course referring to the covenants of law and grace).<br /><br />Anon, "When Paul (In Romans) spoke of the many things he did using terminology about the “salvation of Israel”, it promises and anything prophetic was all pre-destruction of everything, city, nation, law, the religion of Judaism."<br /><br />As you said earlier, you can say that but you can't prove it. Yes, it was before the destruction but does that mean all the promises are only for those who lived before 70AD?<br /><br />I could go round and round with this and comment on everything in opposition to your view. I don't know if that is the best way to go. So my main point to all of this is when scripture speaks it is for the whole, not the partial. Creation--ALL of the universe. The Flood---ALL of the earth. Jesus died for ALL. Preach the gospel to ALL the world. ALL will. He is coming in the clouds and ALL will see Him. All of the promises are for ALL who believe. Whoever believes in Him---not just those before 70 AD. If that is the case then how was His return before ALL who had the chance to know Him?<br /><br />So, how will we, those after 70 AD, be called home to heaven? Why would Paul and John only tell us about one return? Why wouldn't they tell use about another return for us? It strictly says His first coming was to be savior, His second coming was to be judge. Did He already judge? What will He be if He returns a third time? Or are we just living this life waiting to die?Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-54444414609215407142016-09-20T22:59:01.613-04:002016-09-20T22:59:01.613-04:00Of course the audience believed Paul. We are his ...Of course the audience believed Paul. We are his audience too though. Is scripture only for those who lived before 70 AD??<br /><br />Anon said, "I will never leave you or forsake you ..that certainly was a future promise of the working of the Spirit ..Is the Spirit still here ..YES so YES!"<br /><br />So that is for all future generations or just the one He was talking to? How do we know the Spirit is still here? Maybe the Helper was just for that generation and it is no longer here. After all Paul said that which is holding him back must be taken out of the world. What does that mean? Is he taken out of the world?<br /><br />Anon said, "YES and No. Some of the more liberating things about Preterist views are that it shuts up others such as Atheists and Jews up who say that Jesus did not do what he claimed He was going to do; return!"<br /><br />It may shut them up but it doesn't mean it's correct. If anything it would give them more ammunition because we can't prove He came. There would be more people than just Josephus recording that ALL eyes saw Him return.<br /><br />Anon said, "Therefore He must not be the true Messiah so we will wait! Once you see the true fulfillment and what the New Heaven and earth is all about then evangelism can go forward without any of the escapism mentality “well” wait for Jesus to come to take us out of this mess. More loss time in the last 200 years have been wasted sitting on our hands just wait for the pie in the sky!"<br /><br />How is it a waste of time? If anything it gives us more hope. Jesus is returning for me. I will get to see Him come in His glory. If He never comes back is believing in Him a waste of time? Who said those who are futurist are sitting on their hands? Actually that is what Paul warned the Thessalonians about and they in your view "was that generation". He told them keep going. Preterism is what causes people to sit on their hands and not do anything because if we missed the return then what is there to look forward to besides death?<br /><br />Anon said, "Truth is I don’t need any End times Events one way or other! IF I die today! “end Time” events has no connection to me!"<br /><br />In that case nothing we do in life matters. Creation means nothing. The flood means nothing. David's worship means nothing. The Resurrection means nothing. The end times is still part of the plan of God. I know what you are trying to say but it does have meaning.<br /><br />Anon said, "Not sure what that has to do with anything, Jesus was never accustomed to quoting or repeating any scripture to its full read or meaning! He Himself only used proof texting quotes.. the good news was He got it right every time! LOL!"<br /><br />Because ALL of scripture has a purpose. There is a reason why Jesus stopped at that point. And in this passage it's because the Day of Lord is the part He did not say and that is because it was not the time. He was not here to fulfill that scripture.<br /><br />Anon said, "About rereading the whole text as though I nor others have not. That’s always a good distraction to tell others what they need to do, lol!"<br /><br />Not my intention at all. We got off the track of what the post was about. For the last three years I have tried to put together the full story as much as possible to see the connections more clearer and to see what those who traveled with Him may have gotten to see. And it's been amazing to see it fall into place. So, I said go back and read the again to see a different perspective to see what I am saying.<br /><br />Anon said, "I’m not sure but I think I had asked this before if this is correct… does God have TODAY … 2 Kingdoms, 2 Chosen people, 2 covenants, 2 Races of people, 2 Nations 2 Priesthoods, 2 Israel, 2 Jerusalem."<br /><br />I don't understand the connection yet but:<br />2 Kingdoms, No.<br />2 Chosen people, No.<br />2 covenants, depends on the purpose of the covenant.<br />2 races of people??????<br />2 nations?????<br />I don't get these meanings.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-45655894201178891892016-09-19T20:48:51.286-04:002016-09-19T20:48:51.286-04:00I was listening to Brown and Preston debate and it...I was listening to Brown and Preston debate and it was so interesting how they managed to keep hopping over each other due to their both preconceived ideas. <br /><br />About rereading the whole text as though I nor others have not. That’s always a good distraction to tell others what they need to do, lol! An important note those that have made these transitions are well studied persons. I laugh but the Baptist Theologian Hunn who became Catholic was told over and over by his former Baptists how he was not using the correct exegetical formula, etc. IF it was that easy just to do it the other guy’s way how many interpretations would it all boil down to? lol! I Don’t think that is the issues it is more about a mindset or even a psychological state of the mind. It is like the old ink blot test it not so much of connecting all the “right” words in order it something much different. We are all guilty of accusing the other guy of not letting the Holy Spirit guiding like they are thus, like our friend.<br /><br />I’m not sure but I think I had asked this before if this is correct… does God have TODAY … 2 Kingdoms, 2 Chosen people, 2 covenants, 2 Races of people, 2 Nations 2 Priesthoods, 2 Israel, 2 Jerusalem. IF YOU DON”T ANSWER ANY OF THE THINGS ABOUT THIS POST GIVE A YES OR NO ON THIS QUESTION! LOL!<br /><br />About the Matthew and the other Passages you and others would hold that there are two or three distinct questions therefore it must demand 2 or 3 distinct and different answers or events. You would not think it unreasonable for one answer or event to fit and multi-question? Quick question …. Acts 1:6<br /><br />When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?<br /><br />7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.<br /><br />We read more and he tells them about the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel (we see this as event of Pentecost, right?)<br /><br />Why would they re-ask this question if He already told them in the Mt. Of Olive discourse as some have said…my point is you can rule out the Pentecost had anything to do with the subject at hand?<br /><br />They Ask about “The kingdom of Israel” my question is what Kingdom of Israel? … He is talking about “restore” something that they are wanting to hold on to? What do they mean by restoring? Old wine skins can not hold new wine! I suggest this type of questioning is just one more thing that Jesus did not want to get involved in , since He knew the Spirit of Truth was of His way! Again Is there or is there not A New “Israel”? Is there or is there not A New Nation, A new Priesthood, a New people? And lastly a new Covenant? My opinion folks are making the same mistakes as the typical Jewish mentality.<br /><br />When Paul (In Romans) spoke of the many things he did using terminology about the “salvation of Israel”, it promises and anything prophetic was all pre-destruction of everything, city, nation, law, the religion of Judaism. <br /><br />ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS to do as I read the New Test is to keep in mind that as you read those words Romans etc., and Even Revelation they still being overshadowed by what is coming. The destruction (passing away) of Judaism, Temple, law, THE Mosaic, and the preparation for the NEW Jerusalem NEW Heaven and Earth (ALL on a Spiritual or Metaphysical) realm if you like! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-15319986859784432012016-09-19T20:43:48.983-04:002016-09-19T20:43:48.983-04:00Tim said, "I think Paul did include you and m...Tim said, "I think Paul did include you and me in those who MAY remain."<br /><br />Yes you can say that but not prove it. But the audience certainly believed him!<br /><br />Tim said, "Some thought they had missed it for the same reasons why some of us today (preterists) think they missed it, they didn't understand it. I believe Paul was not telling them they would be a part of the event but telling them the reason why he knows it hadn't happened yet is because he was still here. Paul did not know when it would happen. He was telling all to hold on because "if it would happen in their lifetime" then they needed to be ready. Same idea Jesus gave us."<br /><br />Yes I can agree that the bible can be “written” in a manner that all can take it personally or it written that it for me, etc. God just wanted it to be put in the hearts of all believers. That I get, but then you start drawing lines. Ex) “YOU shall drink anything poison and nothing shall hurt you!<br /><br />Tim said, "I don't think it is false hope. If that is so then we have false hope. Is He coming for us? He tells us to hold on, "never will I leave you nor forsake you". Should I not believe that?"<br /><br />I will never leave you or forsake you ..that certainly was a future promise of the working of the Spirit ..Is the Spirit still here ..YES so YES!<br /><br />YES and No. Some of the more liberating things about Preterist views are that it shuts up others such as Atheists and Jews up who say that Jesus did not do what he claimed He was going to do; return! Therefore He must not be the true Messiah so we will wait! Once you see the true fulfillment and what the New Heaven and earth is all about then evangelism can go forward without any of the escapism mentality “well” wait for Jesus to come to take us out of this mess. More loss time in the last 200 years have been wasted sitting on our hands just wait for the pie in the sky! Real opportunity to try and make a better world. But the most liberating the ending of the endless books, dating setting, people going up on a mountain somewhere, no more false prophets to deal with.<br /><br />When you die you end up where God is! No jumping back into the dirt again!<br /><br />Tim said, "Again, not denying that Jerusalem was destroyed and that Jesus prophesied it. But please read the whole passage again in its entirety, not piece by piece from Luke and some from from Mark, but all together. It takes on a new meaning for the preterist.<br /><br />Again, says who?<br /><br />Tim said, "The "age" or "world" in this context is still valid. It also would not change your view on universal restoration."<br /><br />Agreed 100%. Truth is I don’t need any End times Events one way or other! IF I die today! “end Time” events has no connection to me!<br /><br />Tim said, "It just means the return of Christ is for ALL of creation to see, not just for the lucky ones who were born before 2000 years ago. Preterism if correct is depressing and kind of forgets us in this time period."<br /><br />At first I felt the same way but no longer!<br /><br />Tim said, "When Jesus stood in the temple and read from Isaiah, why did He not read the whole prophecy?"<br /><br />Not sure what that has to do with anything, Jesus was never accustomed to quoting or repeating any scripture to its full read or meaning! He Himself only used proof texting quotes.. the good news was He got it right every time! LOL!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-6090569715451063672016-09-17T14:21:04.543-04:002016-09-17T14:21:04.543-04:00I think Paul did include you and me in those who M...I think Paul did include you and me in those who MAY remain.<br /><br />Some thought they had missed it for the same reasons why some of us today (preterists) think they missed it, they didn't understand it. I believe Paul was not telling them they would be a part of the event but telling them the reason why he knows it hadn't happened yet is because he was still here. Paul did not know when it would happen. He was telling all to hold on because "if it would happen in their lifetime" then they needed to be ready. Same idea Jesus gave us.<br /><br />I don't think it is false hope. If that is so then we have false hope. Is He coming for us? He tells us to hold on, "never will I leave you nor forsake you". Should I not believe that?<br /><br />Again, not denying that Jerusalem was destroyed and that Jesus prophesied it. But please read the whole passage again in its entirety, not piece by piece from Luke and some from from Mark, but all together. It takes on a new meaning for the preterist.<br /><br />The "age" or "world" in this context is still valid. It also would not change your view on universal restoration. It just means the return of Christ is for ALL of creation to see, not just for the lucky ones who were born before 2000 years ago. Preterism if correct is depressing and kind of forgets us in this time period.<br /><br />When Jesus stood in the temple and read from Isaiah, why did He not read the whole prophecy?Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-55895963835851985882016-09-14T12:17:30.427-04:002016-09-14T12:17:30.427-04:00Good answer Tim! Even Paul included myself with th...Good answer Tim! Even Paul included myself with those who would REMAIN, right?<br /><br />And you are correct some had thought they had missed it …why?…. Perhaps because they had been instructed it was to be another kind of event another kind of catastrophic event.. whatever kind of “event” Paul was very careful in telling them that they would be a part of it.<br /><br />What does the word imminent mean. Was the Lord’s return not imminent? He sort of gave them false hope when he told them to just hold on in their sufferings and that relief is on it’s way ….not 2000 plus years down the road … that would be false hope! It seems this was The major theme and when the Catholic church was having a tough time explaining the crowds of Jews changing this view that Jesus was a false Messiah they were cornered and started to develop other ideas to explain this way! That is why the oldest historical church east and west did not take the 1000 years literal… that thinking did not come about what like 1400 years later. And the development of that idea keep getting stranger and stranger as time went on.<br /><br />It really took off with Margaret McDonald's Vision in the 1800’s thus the beginning of “end times’ confusion or clarity depending on who you are!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-3291234958632847812016-09-12T16:42:06.745-04:002016-09-12T16:42:06.745-04:00In fairness, the questions were directed to me :)
...In fairness, the questions were directed to me :)<br /><br /><br />Mark 9, Luke 9 and Matthew 25 are not the same story. Luke and Mark are but Matthew is a different piece of the puzzle. In the Luke and Mark passage the transfiguration had not happened yet. But I think it is the Pentecost. This would book end the time of the law. The giving of the law, the passing away of the Abrahamic covenant, was given at Mount Sinai. 3000 people died when Moses got down, even though the law was written, there was a time of "in between", granted not a long one. The day of Pentecost, the law was now going to pass away. 3000 people were added to their numbers. This was about 35 AD I would imagine. The complete passing away came in 70 AD. A new age (using your perception) would start---the age of the Gentiles. But the end of the world, which is what this lesson is about, ends all things for man and ushers in the final age, the age of the Kingdom of God. 1000 years of power and glory. Some of THIS age will not taste death before the end.<br /><br />"Although you sort of get the idea that several have died and just some would be alive to see this event."<br /><br />That kind of depends of who he is talking to. If He is only talking to the "12" or "11" at this point, then only one would live, John. By 70 AD the others were all dead even Paul. If He was talking to more than just those men then it could fit.<br /><br />"Maybe the day of Pentecost, but all were still alive."<br /><br />Again it all depends on who He was talking to. This time it's reversed.<br /><br />If He is talking about OUR generation, then it all fits perfectly. When these things start in our generation, some will live to see it all happen.<br /><br />"AGAIN WHAT DOES HISTORY “RECORD”???"<br /><br />Well, some would argue that Josephus is not as accurate as any Christians would hope. he also wrote fictitious writings on the side. Some think these got into his history of the Jews. But I think those who say that are just adding stories of their own. Nevertheless He never mentions Jesus. He does mentions a name close to it. So, I don't know if history actually records a "return of Jesus" or not. There was of course the destruction of the Temple. But to me this just tells me that that was the finalization of the ending of the law. Jews could no linger sacrifice. The physical accountability is now replaced by grace. Jews will want to sacrifice again in a Temple. Ask them, they want it. I have asked them on forums. They want it.<br /><br />Did Jews/Christians think they were going to see Jesus in their lifetime? Some I would imagine. The Thessalonians even thought they had missed it. Some people today feel the same way as both of these groups. All throughout history some feel it was in their lifetime and some thought they had missed it. Does it really matter what THEY thought?<br /><br /><br />Many of the terms "quickly" and "soon" are not time measurements but adverbs as in when it happens it will be "swift", not as in "tomorrow"<br /><br />"What was this event and was the first century believers mistaken?"<br /><br />We don't know what they thought, only some assumptions by some.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-61789217010214963852016-09-12T15:31:30.229-04:002016-09-12T15:31:30.229-04:00Quote: From No Doubt…
"Tim,
Good luck on this...Quote: From No Doubt…<br />"Tim,<br />Good luck on this one. As for now, I shake the dust, from my feet.<br />No Doubt"<br /><br />So sorry that you gave up so quickly ....but if the Spirit of the Lord prompted you to “shake the dust from your feet” then yes you should by all means obey. But if your own decision to do as such and such…. it honestly sounds more like a copout or some form of fearfulness or you just would rather not and this of course could explain you not answering any of the questions that I proposed.<br /><br />Ok Tim it’s back to you and me!<br />Mark 9:1<br />"And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power"<br /><br />Luke 9:27<br />"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."<br /><br />Matthew 25:31<br />"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:'<br /><br />To some degree we talked about that maybe it was the transfiguration that he was speaking of. I am not sure but check; I think the transfiguration already happen, not sure though. Although you sort of get the idea that several have died and just some would be alive to see this event. Maybe the day of Pentecost, but all were still alive. As the church moves forward towards 70 AD, several had died! But then we run into the fundamental problem of the “coming” of The Son of man which “IF” this speaks in direct correlations of those still alive witnessing ALL THAT HAPPENS …then it fits very well! Just saying! But it’s another type of “coming” that centers around everything that foretold about His First Mission to the lost sheep/Ghenna Judgment/how to escape/running to the hills/when they see the city being surrounded and on and on! AGAIN WHAT DOES HISTORY “RECORD”???<br /><br />Again I have said over and over… if a person does not see the clear event that happened and the concepts of what the Destruction of the Temple and the city that slain the Lord is about then they will not make the important connection to the above verses. Remember the Jews missed Him the first time. They were expecting something different, maybe we should not fall into the same theological trap. Just saying!<br /><br />Ok, then if there is no answer, because we just don’t know, will we deny that the first century believers actually believed that they were going to see Jesus IN THEIR LIFETIME, or did they view as a hundred other events would had to happen first in the future 1948 by the way that was the year I was born so I know that I must be involved somewhere …lol! Or some of long string of events, therefore words like soon, quickly, at the door, soon come to past or THIS generation does not really mean a whole lot …just saying!<br /><br />SO, we are back to the original questions. What was this event and was the first century believers mistaken?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-2430991237302184142016-09-09T08:13:16.019-04:002016-09-09T08:13:16.019-04:00So, let me clarify a few things and get us back on...So, let me clarify a few things and get us back on target.<br /><br />1. The "world" I am referring to is all physical life as we know it.<br />2. I understand there are different "ages", categorical, historical, and covenantal (that isn't a word but it will work)<br />--the age we have and the age to come<br />--creation, flood, bondage, law, grace, captivity, gentile, destruction<br />--adamic, mosaic, davidic, messianic, apostolic<br />3. If we read the whole passage and put it together we see all of the above (#2) in the passage.<br />4. The OT is about the physical (LAW) and the NT is all about the spiritual (GRACE/TRUTH).<br />5. There are "passing aways", the point is "when?"<br />--The age of the Jews passed away in 70 AD, the age of the Gentiles will pass 2000 years after that<br />--each covenant passes away when a new one is established<br />6. Could universal reconciliation be the path? Maybe. It would fit God's "will that all men be saved", but does it fit all scripture? I can't see it all.<br /><br />With that said, I believe in the literal interpretation as much as possible, unless the two Ps show up--prophetic or poetic, then it takes on different meanings. I believe in a pre-trib view to where those who believe will be spared like Noah and Abraham. I believe in a 7000 year existence of a physical age and an eternal spiritual age, before and after the physical one.<br /><br />Now let's stay on the path.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-21604264897214573232016-09-09T03:58:53.354-04:002016-09-09T03:58:53.354-04:00I have to say that we could know the Bible from en...I have to say that we could know the Bible from end to end but still not know God. The Pharisees knew the scriptures well, but did not know God. Jesus said to beware of the 'leaven' (doctrine) of the Pharisees. Leaven is used to inflate bread and the spiritual bread that we must eat can also be inflated by false doctrine. We are told that the secret things belong to God, those revealed belong to us, and we need take no thought for tomorrow.<br />Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165344093549650260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-50303342098804920342016-09-08T22:42:34.444-04:002016-09-08T22:42:34.444-04:00Anonymous, Out of Love and obedience unto the Lor...Anonymous, Out of Love and obedience unto the Lord, I have shown you the error of your beliefs and gave you my testimony. Your response was to receive the message and check it out for yourself, not reiterate tired old denominational doctrines, that don't agree with the whole counsel of God. I can show you numerous prophesies, that have not been fulfilled, and show you that the Law will be with us forever. Y'shua fulfilled the justice or the sting of death of the Law, he did not fulfill the letter of the Law, for it is written that the Law is written upon the hearts of the Remnant of God. Also, the Law will be used to convict those who refuse the sacrificial gift of God's son. My suggestion is the same. Get back to your Hebraic roots and be led by the Spirit of God. He is calling your name. Please answer his call. He loves you and wants you to come home. <br /><br />I do leave you with two old Jewish sayings. "In all your endeavors, you must always use the whole counsel of God." and "By the testimony of two or more, may the Truth be known. " I do hope and pray that you eventually understand what they mean.<br /><br />Tim,<br />Good luck on this one. As for now, I shake the dust, from my feet<br /><br />ShalomKeithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11254093786094787764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-14794281797838520392016-09-08T19:30:49.006-04:002016-09-08T19:30:49.006-04:00Tim,
I didn’t mean “simple” as in the road to lea...Tim, <br />I didn’t mean “simple” as in the road to least resistance. I meant after a period of time it became clear and the answer was right in front of me… so simple! <br /><br />Hi, No Doubt<br /> …I hear you, thank you for your concerns and I have been down this road on many occasions so I’m kind of accustom to getting this reaction. I could go into a very long and in depth discourse on why I totally disagree with several of your presumptions about me. But what good would that do, seriously ? I think it would great to stay with scripture and conversation pertaining to the context of it without getting defensive and resorting to making personal assumption about the other person. It’s amazing to me that it’s Always the other guy who has it all wrong…LOL!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-32118729931091202762016-09-08T15:31:40.052-04:002016-09-08T15:31:40.052-04:00I do realize that there are a few unanswered quest...I do realize that there are a few unanswered questions, the original posting centered around “when was the end of the World”? My first thoughts were, one, what world, what do you mean by world/earth? Second the Greek word is aion or aionias which means age! There are Greek words for earth as in the planet but not used as much as you think. When we say a person is “worldly” ( a system of sort that lead them) you know what they mean. The other points were showing a connection or other possible other meanings of the term “Heaven and Earth” it is often used as the “two witnesses” that must be in order to bier witness against someone as God Himself used the term. It was symbolic of All that the law stood for and their violations of it. Jesus reiterated this thinking when He said … For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled NOW GET THIS you may need to read it a few times. What did Jesus say that would have to happen before All is fulfilled? YES, the passing away of Heaven and Earth. (not literal) The old had to pass first!!!<br />The Heaven and Earth judgement had to happen ( the destruction of the city that slain the Lord) as a sign that the law and all that it stood for was soon passing away. This had to happen first in order for the New Heaven and Earth to come into existence. AND again this was the Event of His “second” coming never was to be a physical one but Spiritual one , one In the Judgment that He himself told His disciples that some would not die until THEY saw it!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-2347850546107969742016-09-08T14:33:27.064-04:002016-09-08T14:33:27.064-04:00continued from above
You also mentioned, "Ch...<i>continued from above</i><br /><br />You also mentioned, <b>"Christian Universal Reconciliation"</b>. Well, my friend, the basic premise of all souls, sinful or not, returning to God, eventually, is totally against what the scriptures teach. You need to distance yourself from that.<br /><br />In the end, you must develop a personal kinsmanship with God directly, not a third party relationship, through a false denominational doctrine, such as Preterism, Amillennialism, Pretribulationism, etc. Get back to God's doctrine, not man's doctrine. Didn't Y'shua say that he hates the way of the Nicolaitans? That's denominationalism, where the individual is ruled over by someone else's doctrine, physically and spiritually. Once you purge your mind, of all the denominational garbage, you will be blown away, with how clear the scriptures and the voice of God becomes. He will show you many things to clear the way for Godly Kinsmanship and you'll have absolutely no doubt that you will never hear the words, >b>"Depart from me, I never knew you." But "Well Done!!!! Good and Faithfull Servant. Welcome Home, B'nai Elohim!<br /><br />For years, I was in your shoes, other than the <b>"All Ways To God"</b> view. I knew the Bible, pretty well. But, I was knocked down, to my knees, at a "Promise Keepers" event. I don't tell many people this, but the Spirit of God came upon me and told me those same words, "You Don't Know Me!!!!". I said, "Show me way, Lord." It still causes me to shutter and tremble. But the rest is HIS STORY. PUN INTENDED. :-) <br /><br />With absolutely, <b>NO DOUBT</b>, I am ECHAD, One with Adonai, through the Messiah. I never miss a day to proclaim, <b>"B'ruch Attah Y'shua B'shem Adonai."</b> Blessed is he, Y'shua, who comes in the name of the Lord. I know Y'shua, is my Brother, My Willing Substitutional Sacrifice, My Kinsman, My Lord, and we have a Loving Father, who continually reveals more and more of himself, to me, everyday. <br /><br />Or you can ignore me. :-(<br /><br />ShalomKeithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11254093786094787764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-70038950291814466572016-09-08T14:32:44.557-04:002016-09-08T14:32:44.557-04:00Hi Anonymous, I'm a little slow. I've re-r...Hi Anonymous, I'm a little slow. I've re-read your comments and PLEASE, don't take this the wrong way, but it appears that your misunderstanding of or struggling with understanding scripture comes from losing your tether. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but it appears that you are searching for truth, by using sources outside of scripture and the direct leading of God's Holy Spirit. <br /><br />Again, I applaud and commend you for getting back to the root meaning of the scriptures. That is the correct path. However, it appears that you follow the false denominational teachings of John Preston, rather than allowing Ruach Hokadesh, the Holy Spirit of God, lead you into all truth. John 16:13. No other teacher is required. <br /><br />My suggestion, as is the same suggestion, which is scripturally based, is to get back to the raw scripture and let scripture interpret itself, with the leading of the Spirit. With the said, there is nothing wrong with listening to people like John Preston, but only after having a solid Spirit based understanding of scripture. At that point, we are told to received any message with eagerness of heart, but search the scriptures daily, as you anchor to reality. Acts 17:11 <br /><br />You also mentioned that there are some that have an <b> "over obsession with literalism." </b> The big problem, with that, is that includes the Nevi'im (Prophets), David and our Meshiach, Y'shua (Jesus). They are literalists. From Moshe (Moses) through the Nevi'im (Prophets), all the way to the Meshiach, we are given levels of scriptural interpretation, they are:<br /><br />1. Literal<br />2. Metaphoric<br />3. Symbolic<br />4. Modeled<br />5. Moralistic<br />6. Legalistic<br />7. Prophetic<br /><br />However, whatever level you are on, you must always have your tether in the literal, regardless if your carnal mind says, <b>"NO WAY". "I CAN'T WRAP MY MIND AROUND THIS!!!".</b> If you read the scriptures, you will find that the Messiah always interpreted scripture literally and he is our example, a pretty good example, at that. Wouldn't you say?<br /><br />Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11254093786094787764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-5044682750694687262016-09-08T11:45:09.560-04:002016-09-08T11:45:09.560-04:00Yes Brenda you are correct Jesus did not make a mi...Yes Brenda you are correct Jesus did not make a mistake! But the Mt. of Olive discourse has nothing really to do with what you are referring to. I’m refereeing mostly to the often misstated “Second Coming” which in if itself the bible doesn’t use the word “second”. All that I am referring to is the coming of or THE “Day of the Lord”!<br /> <br />Preterism as a Christian eschatological view interprets some (Partial Preterism) or all (Full Preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the second century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD.<br /><br />The scriptures below are in direct correlations to His coming or appear “again” after the destruction of the old heaven and earth (Judaism / Old covenant) or “passing away” (a process) that He Himself will bring judgement upon the city that had slain Him! In order that He would bring forth the New Heaven and earth (Kingdom/New Jerusalem). And that some would be alive to see it in the realm of ALL that happen in 70AD.<br /><br />"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."<br /><br />"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"<br /><br />"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."<br /><br />AND thus the fulfillment of the “Second” coming! They also believe that the book of Revelation was written way before 90 AD.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-3406149546890644342016-09-08T09:57:30.479-04:002016-09-08T09:57:30.479-04:00Ecc. 1:4 Generations come and generations go, BUT ...Ecc. 1:4 Generations come and generations go, BUT THE EARTH REMAINS FOREVER!<br /><br />I find it very interesting regarding the Old Test. language of the Prophets and their apocalyptic wording about all kinds of judgments and the relationship of the New Test times and the same apocalyptic language that they used.<br /><br />In the Old Test you read how God rides on the clouds and when he comes down. the mountains quake and are moved out of their places. How the mountains are melted like wax before Him. You read how he rides on the winds as a chariot, and smoke and fire out of His nostrils. The imagery, the exaggerated, the severe punishments warnings and how they will never be no more ,etc…. are meant to get your attention no doubt. One of my favorite is, “he who curses his mother and father the ravens shall come a pluck your eyes out”. Ok I’ve seen lots of cursing but have never seen anyone eyes get plucked out! But without understanding of the purpose driven reasoning behind it you will miss the whole point. <br /><br />Behold He comes in clouds of glory, etc. There is so much imagery, figurative meanings of that type of language that is about pending judgments, as such with fires of Gehenna, a national judgment that Jesus forewarned that was coming.<br /><br />QUOTE: The Age of the House of Israel was interrupted in 70 AD and began again on May 14, 1948. <br />It was what Jesus had been preparing His believers for the fulfillment of His mission!<br /><br />Not interrupted, but destroyed, all that Daniel vision (7-9) foretold happen during the seven year period and the final 4th Kingdom.<br /><br />The Day of the Lord! Again if you are not willing to read history and understand what all really happen then you will not make the connection!<br /><br />There is only one race/people , one nation (Holy), only one priesthood, one Body/Church (new Jerusalem) One covenant (New). One remnant, He doesn’t have two of anything! (there is no Jew, Greek or Gentile)<br /><br />A few things that I keep in the back of my mind as I study is:<br />God says: Whatever I kill, I can resurrect!<br />Whatever I wound, I can Heal, Whatever I destroy I can rebuild!<br />Whatever I erase, I can rewrite Whatever I divorce, I can remarry<br />Whatever I punish, I can reprieve.<br />I will never allow nor create a hopeless situation to ever win out!<br />I am still God even beyond the grave! <br />There is No end to His Kingdom , it doesn’t stop and go and restart!<br /><br />The End of the World!! May not be a reality as physical but maybe an End of the World as some type of system , power or age, yes!<br /><br />The stars are not going to fall, sun not give light, moon turn to blood in a biblical sense. If it does physically happen then we are talking about something altogether different story!<br /><br />However I could be wrong, wrong and wrong, that is why pan-millennialism works fine for me, not to worry it will all pan out in the “END”.. I’m not against folks spending all the time they wish looking to the sky, or watching the fig tree or genetically trying to produce a red spotted heifer. God is more than able to understand us and our struggles!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-66815063793588036252016-09-08T09:28:00.263-04:002016-09-08T09:28:00.263-04:00"The more I studied the more it just made sim..."The more I studied the more it just made simple/ good sense! I’m still working through it."<br /><br />Although, I understand this I don't think this is a good way to decide things. Being simple is not always the best way. Many religions are like that. Buddhism makes good sense. If there is a positive karma then there is an equal and opposite negative karma that keeps harmony of the universe. Sometimes making sense just causes us not to really understand things. Not saying it always does this or is even a horrible thing but we can't base our beliefs because "it is simple".<br /><br />"I am not as resolved with it as I am on my stand with Christian Universal Reconciliation."<br /><br />But whether you believe pre, post, or a- shouldn't effect your idea of reconciliation. Just because Jesus returned in 70 AD or will return in 2070 AD doesn't effect judgement, does it? Why would preterism determine reconciliation or not. This needs to be explained more if you don't mind.<br /><br />"Was an embarrassment so he concluded that Jesus made a mistake!"<br /><br />But can you base your belief on what he thought was a mistake? Maybe he was just wrong.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240624055310283596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4440329089243499006.post-3398211107738950922016-09-08T03:54:12.992-04:002016-09-08T03:54:12.992-04:00Anonymous,
Jesus did not make a mistake. Jesus di...Anonymous,<br />Jesus did not make a mistake. Jesus did come in His Kingdom in that generation. He came as a mediator between man and God, the reward being forgiveness of sins and eternal life and the works they were to do was to believe in Jesus:-<br /><br />'Then they said to him, 'What must we do, to be doing the works of God?' Jesus answered them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.'<br /><br />John ch. 6 vs. 28 and 29 Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165344093549650260noreply@blogger.com